Staying Where It’s Hard

Conditions, Not Character: Working with Distance, Mistrust, and Aliveness in Therapy

Staying Where It’s Hard

Conditions, Not Character: Working with Distance, Mistrust, and Aliveness in Therapy

Lori Marchak

Experiential Training for Mental Health Professionals

Chico Hot Springs, Pray, Montana

Tuesday morning-Friday afternoon, October 27-30, 2026

21 Credit Hours*

Limited to 32 Participants and 8 Assistants 

 

For therapists who sense there is more happening in the room than they were trained to see.

Most therapy models teach us what to do.

They offer maps for emotion, meaning, and behavior. They help us understand patterns, organize interventions, and guide change.

And still—something often remains just out of reach.

Clients speak openly, yet feel far away.
Sessions move forward, yet something essential does not shift.

Moments that seem flat, resistant, or unclear quietly organize the entire relationship.

This training begins from a different question:

What if the most important thing in the room is not what is being said—but how close someone is to their experience, and to you?

A Different Way of Working

This work has evolved from earlier “Better Together” trainings, with a deeper focus on mistrust, distance, and the conditions that allow experience to emerge.

This is not a training in techniques or a new therapeutic model. It is a reorientation of how you see—and how you respond to—what is happening in the room.

Drawing from—and moving beyond—Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT) and Internal Family Systems (IFS), this work focuses on the conditions under which anything we do can actually work.

Rather than focusing on intervention or outcome, we will explore what becomes possible when therapists shift their role:

From helping clients achieve change to creating the conditions where experience can safely emerge.

Across four days, we will explore how change occurs not through insight or intervention alone, but through the conditions that allow new experience to take shape.

This training may change how you understand your role as a therapist.

What We Will Work With

Distance, Not Just Emotion

Track presence and absence in real time—where a client is close, where they are far, and how that shifts moment to moment.

Mistrust as Intelligence

Understand resistance as an accurate assessment of conditions. Learn how naming mistrust can deepen, rather than disrupt, connection.

Cold States and Collapse

Work with numbness, emptiness, fog, and disconnection without forcing activation. Discover what becomes possible when these states are not treated as problems to solve.

Fire, Play, and Aliveness

Recognize when energy returns—and how to meet it without shutting it down or escalating it. Explore play as a condition for flexibility and movement.

Conditions, Not Outcomes

Shift therapist responsibility away from producing change and toward supporting what is actually possible in the moment.

How We Will Learn

This training is primarily experiential.

You will:

  • Participate in structured exercises that reveal your own patterns of intervention
  • Practice tracking distance and mistrust in real time
  • Stay present in moments where you would normally act, fix, or redirect
  • Work directly with intensity, collapse, and relational movement
  • Apply these concepts to your own clinical cases

Didactic teaching will be brief and focused. The emphasis is on direct experience.

For Therapists Trained in EFT and IFS

Many participants come with strong training in EFT, IFS, or other relational or parts models.

These models offer powerful frameworks for understanding emotion, attachment, and internal systems.

At the same time, many therapists begin to notice limits:

  • Moments where emotion is present, but something deeper remains out of reach
  • Clients who understand their patterns but do not shift
  • Interventions that are skillful, yet do not fully land
  • A growing sense of responsibility for outcomes that cannot be controlled

This training does not replace EFT or IFS.

It expands what is possible within them.

We will focus on areas that are often underdeveloped across models:

  • working directly with mistrust
  • tracking relational distance in real time
  • supporting collapse and “cold” states without pushing activation
  • recognizing when intervention interrupts rather than supports
  • redefining therapist responsibility around conditions, not outcomes

You will leave with greater flexibility—able to move within and beyond the models you know, without losing their strengths.

Scenic view, Ghost Ranch

What Makes This Training Different?

Many trainings offer new interventions.

This one focuses on what happens before intervention matters.

We will not be building toward mastery, certainty, or a set of correct moves.

Instead, we will:

  • Slow down enough to see what is actually happening in the room
  • Work directly with what therapists often override—mistrust, distance, collapse
  • Explore where responsibility has been misplaced—and what changes when it is realigned
  • Create conditions where both therapists and clients can experience something new

This is not about doing more.
It is about seeing differently—and trusting what follows from that.

What Therapists Often Notice After This Training

Many therapists come into this training expecting to learn something new.

What they often notice instead is a shift in how they see and respond to what is already happening.

Over time, this can show up as:

  • Less pressure to produce change
    A clearer sense of what is actually yours to carry—and what is not
  • Greater ease in moments that used to feel stuck
    The ability to stay with distance, confusion, or non-movement without needing to resolve it
  • More precise use of intervention
    Acting less often, but with better timing and impact
  • A different relationship to mistrust and resistance
    Recognizing these as meaningful responses to conditions, rather than obstacles to overcome
  • Increased flexibility within existing models
    Moving more freely within EFT, IFS, or other approaches without losing their strengths
  • More aliveness in the room
    Moments of spontaneity, humor, or intensity that are not managed away

These shifts emerge as therapists begin to track conditions more closely and to respond to what is actually present rather than what they expect to happen. 

For many therapists, this changes not only how they work, but how they experience being in the room.

Scenic view, Ghost Ranch
Learning is an Adventure. It helps to have a map.

Hannah Stueckle, Oakland, CA

In the scope of training for therapists that balance the heart of the matter content with connection and relaxation, you can find no better. If we find the greatest healing through relationships, then this space addresses the core of how hurt and pain show up in therapy and how to sit with them effectively for ourselves and our clients. Lori encourages participants to push back and explore resistance in the training. I have never found this in another therapeutic professional setting and find it vital in creating authentic, meaningful trust and growth.

Brittany Burch, Houston, TX

I truly cannot recommend this training any higher – 6 stars wouldn’t even be high enough. It was a game changer!
By integrating IFS into my EFT skill set, I’ve seen significant growth in my work with both individual clients & couples. Lori’s exquisite attunement modeled a style that demonstrated how to slow down, deepen and resonate with clients in a way that is a palpable shift in my work. And Jenny’s mastery of IFS brought to life how to apply this approach in a way that had previously eluded me. The experiential components interspersed with lecture gave us ample opportunities to practice new skills in a way no other training has offered. February cannot come soon enough – learning from these two master clinicians was like drinking from a well of wisdom that rehydrated and revitalized my passion as a psychotherapist. And this next training is sure to be even more nourishing. I cannot wait!

Mark Scheffers, Kalamazoo, MI

I had tried on my own to integrate IFS and EFT in my work with couples. I knew both models helped facilitate change but found myself slipping into one or the other as I worked. If I had leaned toward IFS in a session I felt like I’d missed something EFT would have contributed. If I leaned toward EFT in a session I would come away feeling like I hadn’t gone as deep as if I had used a little IFS. When I heard about the “Better Together Training” I signed up right away. I’m so glad I did. The training helped me see the different models like two layers of one process as I work. Each enriching the other. The training gave a boost to my work. I know I will continue to learn from the intersection of the two models for a long time to come.

Laura C Spiller, Ph.D.

I am a certified EFT therapist and Supervisor Candidate who loves the road map that EFT provides and embraces the guideposts provided by the EFT stages, steps, and moves of the Tango. EFT training has provided me with the ability to bring healing presence and attunement to my clients in their loneliest, darkest places. I was unsure about opening up to the IFS approach; however, Lori Marchak’s Better Together training opened up new, deeper levels in my clinical work. I experienced new ways of being exquisitely attuned to my clients inner world. It was like a new level of tango opened up, where I could move forward and *back* with the client. Previously, I tried to validate the protective moves and organize the secondary emotion to get to the vulnerability under the clients protection. In this training I learned how to dance more effectively with all parts of the client in an even more attuned, responsive manner that helps the client listen to and honor their protection. This deeper work with protectors is allowing clients to experience a more expansive and safe inner world, and provides greater access and tools for bringing care and light to those darker, isolated parts. This training potentiates the non-pathologizing stance of EFT even further, helping therapists befriend and experientially validate their client’s protection, providing an even more powerful healing container. The safe and supportive environment of the training also helped me see and care for my own parts that come alive in my clinical work.

Warren Michelson, Missoula, MT

For me, who loves big ideas and deep insights, the finest measure of a training is its applicability.
I started using the frames and confidently curious stance of this unique training Monday morning, back in my office with my lovely, suffering couples.
This training-experience (because it is both!), brings together, maybe for the first time, EFT and IFS in a highly interactive, experiential retreat format. IFS “parts language” can help couples explore the most vulnerable attachment fears and injuries with less overwhelm. EFTs attachment focus can help us find, feel and finally welcome home (love on) our exiled parts. Hope to meet you at a future EFT & IFS Together experience!

Mindy McGovern, LMFT, CST, Seattle, WA

The first iteration of this training was amazing. Lori and Jennifer provide such a wealth of experience and deep respect for EFT and IFS and how they can combine to create a richer therapist/client experience. I got so much out of their combination of didactic, experiential and hands-on learning. They create such a safe container that allows therapists more experienced with one model or the other to be vulnerable in exploring something new and leading edge. I would highly recommend this training and would be happy to answer any questions you might about participating from a participant’s perspective.

Kristin O’Hara, MS, LMFT, Woodinville, WA

Lori and Jenny did such a nice job demonstrating how to integrate IFS and EFT. From the very beginning, they created a safe and cohesive group that allowed for and encouraged personal exploration and growth. They showed us how to create safety with our clients through attunement and helped increase our awareness of and compassion for the burdens that we each carry and how this shows up in therapy. This training was so enriching for me both personally and professionally…plus it was a lot of fun!

Noah Roost, Portland, OR

Lori Marchak’s integration of EFT and IFS is invaluable. She helped me learn to befriend my clients’ most reactive and provocative parts. She provides hands-on, very applicable techniques to skillfully address the most challenging and stressful aspects of couples therapy (e.g. working with your clients’ rage, contempt, and dissociation). Since attending her workshop I have noticed more vitality and more effectiveness in my couples’ practice. I highly recommend the training to both individual and couples therapists interested in deepening their work with clients. Her training will help therapists bring more true acceptance and secure connection to ALL of their clients.

Workshop Participant

Having taken all the EFT required trainings for certification; Externship, Cores I & II, Self AS Therapist, the supervisory hours to be qualified as “Advanced” as well as EFT Lab II, about 6 months of EFT Cafe, an in person two-day training with Les Greenberg on EFS, a workshop with David Schwartz and IFS workshops in person and on line, I learned so much from Lori’s day long workshop on synthesizing and integrating IFS & EFT. In my experience, EFT trainers rarely mention other modalities and seems to advocate ONLY the EFT script so if one wants to add other modalities, it is either actively discouraged or ignored. I believe the EFT “map” and staying on track is usually very useful. This perspective is the one which has been validated with data from Susan Johnson research and it may be more effective than incorporating other modalities but I have not seen data comparing strict EFT with data using EFT and IFS. There are times when I believe it is useful to incorporate IFS with EFT or to shift to IFS. Lori clearly demonstrated doing just that and clarified how to determine which modality might be more effective depending on the position of the client and the therapist. She made the “Tango” much more explicit and helped me filter the variables which indicate where the work is needs to be deepened in the “Tango.”

Workshop Participant

I was fortunate to attend this workshop integrating EFT and IFS. I was awed by the clinical mastery Lori possessed in her demonstrations and didactic materials. I was confident I was in the presence of a clinician who was always present to the moment and people before her. She clearly was knowledgeable about both therapeutic models and able to speak to both fluently.

Workshop Participant

Lori Marchak is a brilliant woman with a gentle spirit. She exudes an aura of safety and confidence that makes it comfortable for anyone to be her client! I would not hesitate to refer anyone to see Dr. Marchak for individual, couple, or group counseling. And I’d refer any EFT-er or any IFS-er to attend her workshop.

Workshop Participant

Superb material – integrating two rather large theories into one. Both EFT and IFS have their strengths and together they are even more powerful. Dr. Marchak has blended the two and neither detracts from the other.

Lori Marchak

Lori Marchak, MS, Ph.D, LMFT, LCPC

Lori is a psychotherapist, teacher, and writer whose work explores how nervous systems adapt to impossible conditions—and what becomes possible when those conditions change.

Drawing from decades of clinical experience and training in Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT), Internal Family Systems (IFS), and neuroscience-informed approaches, she has developed a relational framework that centers mistrust, distance, and the full range of human emotional experience as intelligent and necessary.

Her work focuses less on changing people and more on shifting the conditions that make change possible.

She lives and practices in Bozeman, Montana.

More Details

Who This Is For

This training is designed for therapists who:

  • Have prior clinical training (EFT, IFS, or other relational or parts models)
  • Feel both supported and constrained by those models
  • Want to deepen their capacity to work with what feels stuck, distant, or unreachable
  • Are interested in working with what emerges, rather than directing it
  • Are willing to examine their own patterns of helping, fixing, or withdrawing
  • Are open to uncertainty, discomfort, and not-knowing

Training Structure

This is a four-day immersive training (21 CE hours), organized around a developmental arc:

Day 1 — Seeing Clearly
Distance, mistrust, and what is often missed

Day 2 — Staying Present
Working with cold states and non-movement

Day 3 — Allowing Movement
Fire, play, and aliveness

Day 4 — Releasing Control
Conditions, not outcomes

Includes:

  • Teaching and conceptual framing
  • Live clinical demonstrations
  • Dyadic and small group experiential work
  • Process groups for integration

Learning Objectives

Participants will be able to:

  • Differentiate between outcome-based and condition-based therapeutic approaches
  • Recognize and work with client mistrust as adaptive intelligence
  • Track and respond to relational distance in clinical interactions
  • Work more effectively with dissociation, collapse, and “cold” emotional states
  • Distinguish between defensive and protest anger and respond appropriately
  • Apply a therapist stance that supports safety without overriding client protection
  • Integrate these principles into their existing clinical framework
Is there any risk in this kind of training?

Yes.

Not in the sense of harm—but in the sense of being asked to question assumptions that many therapists rely on.

This training involves:

  • examining where responsibility for change has been placed—and what happens when that shifts
  • noticing the impulse to fix, guide, or move the process forward
  • staying with moments of uncertainty, non-movement, or intensity without immediately resolving them
  • allowing familiar frameworks to loosen, at least temporarily

For many therapists, this can feel disorienting at times.

You may find yourself:

  • unsure of what to do in moments where you would normally intervene
  • questioning approaches that have previously felt reliable
  • encountering your own patterns of helping, controlling, or withdrawing more directly

This is not a problem to overcome. It is part of the work.

The training is structured to support you in these experiences:

  • clear boundaries and pacing
  • consent-based participation
  • a strong emphasis on staying within what is workable for each person

You will not be pushed to perform or to go beyond your capacity.

At the same time, this is not a passive or purely observational training.

It asks for engagement—with your work, your assumptions, and your experience in the room.

For many participants, this level of engagement is what makes the training meaningful—and what allows something new to become possible.

Is this couple or individual therapy training?

Both.

While many demonstrations and exercises may involve couples (to make relational dynamics more visible), the principles apply equally to individual therapy. The focus is not on a specific modality, but on how experience is met in the room.

How experiential is the training?

Highly experiential.

Each day includes demonstrations, dyadic exercises, and small group process work. Participants are invited—but not required—to engage at a personal level.

There is no expectation to share beyond what feels appropriate. Respect for individual pacing and boundaries is central to the structure of the training.

The group size is limited to 32 participants and 8 assistants. 

Is this an advanced training?

Yes.

This training assumes that you already have a clinical framework (EFT, IFS, or similar) and experience working with clients.

We will not be teaching foundational skills or step-by-step protocols.

Instead, we will focus on:

  • what happens when your training is not enough
  • how to work in moments where there is no clear next move
  • how to stay present when you cannot produce change
Will this help with clients who feel stuck, distant, or hard to reach?

Yes—this is a central focus.

Much of the training is devoted to working with:

  • clients who feel emotionally flat or disconnected
  • clients who understand their patterns but do not shift
  • moments where nothing seems to be happening
  • situations where traditional interventions do not land

Rather than trying to overcome these states, we will explore how to work within them.

What if I feel uncertain or “not good enough” in this kind of work?

That experience is expected—and useful.

This training includes working with:

  • not knowing
  • not being able to produce change
  • moments where your usual ways of helping do not apply

You will not be asked to perform or get it right.

You will be supported in staying present in places where certainty is not available.

How is this different from EFT or IFS training?

 

This work is informed by both EFT and IFS, but it is not a combination, comparison, or extension of those models.

EFT and IFS offer powerful frameworks for understanding emotion, attachment, and internal systems. Many therapists find that these models significantly deepen their work.

At the same time, there are moments in practice where something remains out of reach:

  • Clients can access emotion, but still feel far away
  • Parts can be identified and understood, but not shift
  • Interventions are skillful, yet do not fully land

This training focuses on those moments.

We will work with areas that are often underdeveloped across models:

  • tracking relational distance in real time
  • working directly with mistrust
  • staying with collapse and “cold” states without moving to activation
  • recognizing when intervention interrupts rather than supports
  • understanding how conditions shape what is possible

The goal is not to replace your model, but to expand your range within it.

Will I learn new interventions or ways of working?

Yes—but not in the form of a fixed set of techniques.

As we work, you will see and practice new ways of responding that emerge directly from what is happening in the room.

For therapists trained in EFT, this often includes:

  • expanding how you track and work with distance, beyond emotional expression alone
  • new ways of staying with and naming mistrust without moving too quickly toward bonding or repair
  • working more directly with moments where emotion is present, but not fully accessible or integrated
  • working more slowly with individuals in couples therapy
  • expanding your conceptualization of enactments in couples therapy 

For therapists trained in IFS, this often includes:

  • a more fluid, relational way of engaging with parts as they arise in real time
  • working with protectors through mistrust and distance, rather than primarily through access or permission
  • allowing parts to organize the interaction without needing to guide or structure the process

Across both approaches, therapists often find that:

  • interventions become less scripted and more responsive
  • timing becomes more precise
  • less effort is required to move the process forward

These are not techniques to apply, but ways of working that develop as you begin to track conditions more closely.

Will this conflict with how I practice EFT or IFS?

No—but it may change how you relate to your model.

Many therapists come in expecting to integrate new techniques. That is not the focus here.

Instead, you may find:

  • you intervene less quickly
  • you track more of what is happening beneath the content
  • you feel less pressure to move the process forward
  • you become more selective about when and how you use interventions

This often makes your existing EFT or IFS work more effective—not less—because it is better matched to the conditions in the room.

Will I still be able to use my EFT or IFS skills?

Yes.

Nothing in this training removes or replaces the skills you already have.

Instead, it helps you discern:

  • when an intervention is supported by the conditions in the room
  • when it is premature
  • when something else needs to happen first

Many participants report that their interventions become more precise, and that they rely less on technique to carry moments that require presence instead.

What if I’m used to being more active or directive in sessions?

That’s welcome here.

This training is not about becoming passive or withholding.

It is about recognizing:

  • when activity supports the process
  • when it overrides something important
  • what becomes possible when you do less, but stay more precisely engaged

You will not be asked to give up your style.
You will be invited to see it more clearly.

If you've attended a previous Better Together training

Participants returning from earlier “Better Together” trainings will notice:

  • a more clearly articulated and independent framework
  • expanded focus on mistrust, distance, and cold states
  • new experiential exercises and process structures
  • greater emphasis on therapist orientation and responsibility

While the core spirit of the work remains, the focus and clarity have deepened.

Schedule
All times are in local Mountain Standard Time (MST)
 
Monday, October 26
3 pm or later: Check-in
 

Tuesday, October 27

8:15 Breakfast
9:00-12:15 Training
12:15-2:45: Lunch and Break
2:45–6:00 Training
 
Wednesday, October 28
8:15 Breakfast
9:00-12:15 Training
12:15-2:45: Lunch and Break
2:45–6:00 Training
 
Thursday, October 29
8:15 Breakfast
9:00-12:15 Training
12:15-2:45: Lunch and Break
2:45–6:00 Training
 
Friday, October 30
Room checkout by 10:00 am
8:15 Breakfast
9:00-12:15 Training
12:15-1:15: Lunch and Break
1:15–3:30 Training
 
Prerequisites

To get the most from this training, participants should (1) understand the Emotionally Focused Therapy model and have practice working with either individuals or couples in that model. Ideally, participants will have completed an EFT Externship. Likewise, participants will have (2) basic understanding and experience with the Internal Family Systems model through formal or informal learning or personal therapy. Experience using IFS in your practice is not required.

Interest and curiosity in exploring emerging ideas in experiential therapy is more important than prior training and experience. 

Policies and Procedures

Confidentiality of Participant Information and Breaches of Confidentiality

Trusted Journeys, Inc. will ensure that participant information, including name, contact, and payment information, will be kept confidential. In the case of a breach of confidentiality, Trusted Journeys will contact the participant.  

Program Complaints

If a participant or potential participant would like to express a concern about Lori Marchak or a continuing education program provided by Trusted Journeys, the individual may  email Lori Marchak at trustedjourneys@gmail.com, Laura Spiller, drspiller@lauracspillerphd.com, training coordinator, or Tahlia Rainboldt, t.rainboltphd@gmail.com, training coordinator. Although we do not guarantee a particular outcome, Trusted Journeys will consider the complaint, make any necessary decisions, and respond within 30 days.

Fees, Refunds, and Cancellation

The fees, refund, and cancellation policy are located on the registration form, below. 

Attendance

Credit will be given for live attendance only. Partial credit will be given based on hours in attendance, when the participant attends at least 6 hours of the live training. 

Disclosure or Use of Client Information in a CE Program

Client information must not be disclosed by a presenter or participant unless proper informed consent has been obtained for use in a continuing education program.

Getting to Chico Hot Springs

For those traveling from outside the region, plan to fly into Bozeman or Billings, Montana, airports. Plan for an additional driving time of 1 hour from the Bozeman airport or 2 hours from Billings.

There is no public transportation to Chico; a car ride will be necessary. As the date approaches, we will use email announcements to promote ride-sharing.

Staying at Chico

Chico Hot Springs
Pray, Montana is 30 minutes north of Yellowstone National Park.

Check-in is Monday afternoon or evening. Contact Chico directly to book your room. They have a block of rooms reserved, along with additional options. Please mention “Better Together” when reserving a room.

This training includes extended midday breaks to rest, reflect, and take in the surrounding landscape.

Visiting Yellowstone National Park

Chico Hot Springs is 30 miles from the north entrance to Yellowstone National Park. As the park is roughly the size of the state of Connecticut, it is ideal to plan a multi-day visit if you go. Lodging in the national park fills up well in advance. Nearby Gardiner, Montana, has many private lodging options.

 

$0.00
*Students, BIPOC, and financially challenged individuals are welcome to pay a partial amount of their own determination. Please email trustedjourneys@gmail with the amount you’d like to pay to receive an adjusted invoice.
Breakfast and lunch are provided in the training room each day. Dinner is on your own at Chico or other area locations.
As an training participant I affirm that I have training and educational qualifications to practice legally as a professional mental health practitioner or am currently in a formal training to be a professional mental health practitioner. I also agree to abide by a mental health professional code of ethics. I will follow legal confidentiality requirements regarding all client and participant information shared in the training. I understand that this training does not count toward certification in EFT or IFS, and that Trusted Journeys, Inc. is not affiliated with ICEEFT or The IFS Institute. Enrollment in this training constitutes an agreement to hold harmless Trusted Journeys, Inc. and all presenters and trainers from any and all claims, actions, and judgements, including all costs of defense and attorney’s fees incurred in defending against claims.
Full refund (minus $100 administrative fee) available through September 1, 2026.
After that date, tuition is non-refundable but may be transferable.